Amie was struggling to get good conversations from her legally technical guests, so she reached out for a coaching call where we discussed a number of things:
- Weaving story into the answers your guests give - The importance of a pre-interview - How to make sure your guest gives the best stuff during the recording - Permission to nix a bad interview.
If you want your own coaching call, head to https://podcastliftoff.com/coaching/ - Mention this and the permission to publish YOURS, and I'll give you a discount.
Join my Podcast Workflows newsletter: https://podcastworkflows.com
About Streamlined Podcaster: This is the show for solo podcasters who love their podcast but hate how much time it takes. Each week, host Joe Casabona shares the systems, workflows, and podcast automation that let you run a great show without burning out.
Joe has been a solo podcaster for 15+ years and helps solopreneurs replace manual tasks with reliable systems so they can take time off worry-free. He knows firsthand what it takes to produce a quality show solo — and he's here to help you do the same.
Get Joe's favorite podcasting tools: https://streamlinedpodcaster.com/tools
Connect with Joe on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jcasabona/
NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00 --> 00:00:00 Hey everybody.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:05 As I prepare for the next season of podcast workflows, I wanted to give you
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 a little pre-seasoned bonus episode.
00:00:08 --> 00:00:11 That is a coaching call I had with Amy.
00:00:12 --> 00:00:17 Amy was struggling to get good conversations.
00:00:17 --> 00:00:18 From her guests.
00:00:18 --> 00:00:19 She has a.
00:00:19 --> 00:00:25 Uh, pretty technical podcast technical in the professional sense, not in the.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 Techie sense, like computer sense.
00:00:28 --> 00:00:32 She interviews lawyers, attorneys, and people in the legal space.
00:00:32 --> 00:00:33 And so she has a hard time.
00:00:34 --> 00:00:38 Writing those stories and what prompted her to reach out to
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 me was she attended a webinar.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45 I hosted where I talked about seven mistakes that podcasters make, and
00:00:45 --> 00:00:47 one is not forming the narrative.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 And so she hopped on a coaching call with me.
00:00:50 --> 00:00:55 And we talked about how to leverage a pre-interview.
00:00:55 --> 00:01:00 To elicit those good questions and those good conversations.
00:01:00 --> 00:01:04 And we talked about a storytelling format where instead of her just doing
00:01:04 --> 00:01:07 a straight conversation, she can.
00:01:07 --> 00:01:13 Record, uh, the questions and answers, grab the answers and
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 then write a story around it.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18 So I really enjoyed this call with Amy.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:19 I think that.
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21 She has the.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:25 Uh, drive in the resources to be able to do some of the things we talked about.
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 I'm really excited about.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 Uh, where her show is going to go from here.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 So this is pretty much a straight call.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:34 Uh, not too.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:38 I edited some parts out for clarity and I edited.
00:01:38 --> 00:01:43 I added a little disclaimer, kind of at one point where, um, we wanted
00:01:43 --> 00:01:47 to protect the identity of some people that we were talking about.
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 But other than that, it's a pretty straightforward conversation.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:50 I hope you enjoy it.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:56 Uh, if you want to get all of the show notes and learn more about what
00:01:56 --> 00:02:00 Amy is doing, check for the link in the description in your podcast
00:02:00 --> 00:02:04 player, and you can join my mailing list over@podcastworkflows.com.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:08 Otherwise, here is my conversation with Amy.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:12 Joe: Okay, so your employer told you you should start a podcast.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 So tell me a little, the thing that I like to well, I always like
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 to ask the first question, like, what's your biggest struggle?
00:02:18 --> 00:02:20 And then I'm like really into process stuff.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:24 So I'd love to know like, how you produce your podcast, but it sounds
00:02:24 --> 00:02:29 like the harder part for you is actually getting like the good conversations.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:30 That's the hard
00:02:30 --> 00:02:31 Amie: part.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:31 Okay.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:33 Because everything's pretty high and dry.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:34 Yeah.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:41 It's, I mean, yeah, so when you were talking about stories like that
00:02:41 --> 00:02:43 totally rings a hundred percent to me.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:44 A hundred percent.
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 Cuz I'm also a copywriter.
00:02:47 --> 00:02:47 Okay.
00:02:47 --> 00:02:47 Stories.
00:02:48 --> 00:02:49 So I love stories.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:49 Nice.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:50 I'm all about it.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:51 Yeah.
00:02:51 --> 00:02:56 So it's like, man, I so wanna tell stories, but I know like, cuz when you
00:02:56 --> 00:03:01 talk about developers and how they, they answer questions directly, it's like, oh.
00:03:02 --> 00:03:02 Mm-hmm.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:04 Come on, let's add some fluff.
00:03:04 --> 00:03:05 Let's add some fluff.
00:03:06 --> 00:03:06 Joe: Yeah.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 So there's a couple of things that you could do.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:14 I shared I do these like deep dives on podcast workflows, and I just
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 did one on one of my favorite shows History Daily about how, and I think
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21 I mentioned this during the, the live stream, but like, yeah, he'll take
00:03:21 --> 00:03:26 a seemingly dry topic and turn it into this really interesting story.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:30 So this creates more work in the edit, but something that
00:03:30 --> 00:03:34 you could do is get the answers.
00:03:34 --> 00:03:40 From the, from your guest, and then you could weave stories around the answers.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 So at this point, I ask Amy.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:49 To tell me a little bit about a horror story or a bad guest that she had.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 And she gets pretty specific.
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53 She doesn't name names, but I think that.
00:03:54 --> 00:03:58 Anybody familiar with her show and certainly the people who are on that show.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 Would know who she's talking about here.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:06 So to protect Amy and protect her, I'm going to recount this a little bit.
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 And, and have some of her commentary.
00:04:08 --> 00:04:11 That's heavily edited, but basically she had a guest.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 Where she had multiple folks, including at least one attorney.
00:04:16 --> 00:04:21 And she really wants to talk about one aspect of like a
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 common aspect of these people.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 So you know, if it's in attorney, client thing,
00:04:26 --> 00:04:30 Maybe she has the attorney and the client who's willing to talk about their case.
00:04:30 --> 00:04:31 But in this case,
00:04:33 --> 00:04:37 The person that she wanted to talk to the most.
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 Didn't say much.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:45 And the other person basically just spent the whole time.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 Pitching their services.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:51 So she didn't really get a good recording.
00:04:52 --> 00:04:53 That she could use.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 Out of this and, and that's, I wanted to provide a little bit
00:04:56 --> 00:05:00 of context there so that I didn't have to recount her whole story.
00:05:00 --> 00:05:04 And possibly give away to people in the know who she's talking about.
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 Amie: I learned my lesson with this one.
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 So what this podcast episode was, was an attorney.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:14 This guy and they were both talking about how it helps bring in clients.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:19 So I was hoping to get more of the attorney on the podcast.
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 But it was just one giant pitch.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:22 Yeah.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 And I did not see that one coming.
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 So, yeah.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:27 Yeah.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 Is what ended up happening was, thankfully these aren't
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 recorded, li I just record 'em.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:32 Yeah.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 And then I go back and I add my own stuff.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:36 Kind of like what you were saying.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:38 Joe: Yeah.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 So this is like, yeah.
00:05:41 --> 00:05:45 This is where a pre-interview will save me too, because like I've gotten pitches.
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48 I got somebody who was like, I'd love to come on your podcast also.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 This episode needs to be out by this date.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 And I'm like, oh, no, you, what you're talking about is sponsorship.
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 Like that's this.
00:05:55 --> 00:05:59 If you want, if you want a specific date and wanna talk about specific
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 things, that is something you pay for.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:05 But he was talking about like time management, which.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:08 Really good for both developers and creators.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:08 Right.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 Unlike basically anybody almost.
00:06:10 --> 00:06:15 So I kind of read him the riot act before he recorded and I was like, if
00:06:15 --> 00:06:21 there's like a whiff of pitching your thing in this episode, it will not air.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:22 Oh man.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:24 Amie: That's great.
00:06:25 --> 00:06:26 I need to be bold like
00:06:26 --> 00:06:26 Joe: you.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 Yeah, I mean like that's, you know, I mean, I'm from New
00:06:29 --> 00:06:30 York, so like we're just very.
00:06:31 --> 00:06:32 Candid and direct.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 Amie: It sounds like I need to Okay.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:41 Be more of a New Yorker and be more bold because we email back and forth.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:45 What I ran into is that I would pre-interview these people.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:46 Yeah.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:49 And the.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53 I don't know if this is what it's like for you, but it's always the same thing.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 Like it'd be like, I'd be like, all right, it's like gonna be a 10 minute phone call.
00:06:57 --> 00:06:57 Me and you.
00:06:57 --> 00:07:01 We've never spoken before or like Yeah, even before the podcast.
00:07:01 --> 00:07:06 Yeah, like the day of and before I'm able to hit record.
00:07:06 --> 00:07:07 They give me all the juicy stuff.
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 Like right off the bat, like all the good stuff.
00:07:11 --> 00:07:12 Yeah, that's, and then I'm like, why
00:07:12 --> 00:07:13 Joe: aren't you, this
00:07:13 --> 00:07:14 Amie: isn't a podcast yet.
00:07:14 --> 00:07:15 Joe: Don't tell me this now.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:16 Yeah.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 So that, that happens to me all the time.
00:07:18 --> 00:07:18 But that's good, right?
00:07:18 --> 00:07:22 Because I write it down and then I say, okay, save that energy.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:22 Keep it.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 I'm gonna ask you the same thing during the recording.
00:07:25 --> 00:07:25 Okay.
00:07:26 --> 00:07:30 And most, I mean, at least most people in my space understand, like, I'm gonna ask
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 them as if I've never heard it before.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:33 Right, right.
00:07:33 --> 00:07:37 So it's like, so, you know, oh, you were telling us about, you know, some
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 interesting, I don't know, I dunno if you interviewed trial lawyers
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 or not, but like an interesting court case or whatever, right?
00:07:42 --> 00:07:46 Or like estate planning, you know, like how do we make that interesting, right?
00:07:46 --> 00:07:50 Like right, so you were telling me this thing can you give us the details of that?
00:07:50 --> 00:07:50 Right?
00:07:50 --> 00:07:51 Like, something like that, right?
00:07:51 --> 00:07:55 Like tee it up so that they can, they can tell that story again because like,
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 most lawyers have good stories, right?
00:07:59 --> 00:08:00 So, Or should,
00:08:00 --> 00:08:03 Amie: but, but they're like, that's confidential information, like Right.
00:08:04 --> 00:08:05 Joe: Yeah.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 Just don't use names right with me here.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:12 So, so what I'll do, so if they, so if they do that, what I would do is
00:08:13 --> 00:08:20 I will create a fabricated scenario that is very similar to the one
00:08:20 --> 00:08:21 where they can't give the details.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:27 Let's say I didn't have a contract in place with a client.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:31 They prepaid me for work and then disappeared for four years.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 Now they're asking for the money back.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 Do I have to give them that money?
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 so like usually I would paint that picture, like paint a
00:08:40 --> 00:08:41 picture like that, right?
00:08:41 --> 00:08:50 Where they don't have to, they could give their non-binding advice as a profession.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 Because this is the other thing, like every lawyer I've had on, on my
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 show every, like, it's all the time.
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 I've had a couple and I'm like, you wanna throw a disclaimer at the
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 beginning that anything they hear on this show is not legal advice.
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 And that they should consult a real lawyer in their field or whatever.
00:09:04 --> 00:09:05 They're like, yeah, that's a good idea.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 And I'm like, yeah, I know it's a good idea.
00:09:08 --> 00:09:09 Amie: So, all right, so adding that
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 Joe: disclaimer would really help.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:11 Yeah.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:12 Yeah.
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 Because cuz then like, cuz you know, there are people who'd be like,
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 well I heard this on a podcast.
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 And I'm like, all right, well that's like not advice for you, right?
00:09:19 --> 00:09:19 Mm-hmm.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 I always, if I talk about like copyright or something, I might always, like,
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 I'm not a lawyer, let's be clear.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:29 This is how I understand it, but I'm not, don't.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:30 Don't think I'm right.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:34 So yeah, like having that disclaimer might, you know, you could always say
00:09:34 --> 00:09:38 like, oh yeah, we have a, whenever we have a lawyer on the show, we
00:09:38 --> 00:09:42 have a prerecorded disclaimer at the beginning that says, you know, the
00:09:42 --> 00:09:46 things that you hear on this show should not be considered legal advice.
00:09:46 --> 00:09:51 And you should you know, consult a lawyer in your state or your country,
00:09:51 --> 00:09:55 or whatever, you know, however, You can wordsmith that part, I think.
00:09:55 --> 00:09:55 Right?
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 And that might, that might help open them up a little bit.
00:09:59 --> 00:10:05 And then like bud creating these hypothetical situations instead of asking
00:10:05 --> 00:10:11 them like direct, direct details about a case could also open them up a little bit.
00:10:11 --> 00:10:12 Yeah.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 So those are the things that I would generally recommend.
00:10:14 --> 00:10:18 Like, and again, like the pre-interview, don't, like, don't worry about
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 guests repeating things in the pre-show and the main show because
00:10:21 --> 00:10:23 You know, this is, this is for you.
00:10:23 --> 00:10:27 You're eliciting information that you want to be stated on the main show, right?
00:10:27 --> 00:10:31 So even if you repeat like everything you talk about on the pre-show for your
00:10:31 --> 00:10:35 audience, like that's fine because now you can also think of good follow-up questions
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 or thing like context to add as well.
00:10:38 --> 00:10:39 That's true.
00:10:39 --> 00:10:40 Yeah.
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 And then, Again, the other thing I do like, depending on how much
00:10:43 --> 00:10:47 editing, and I know it's almost lunchtime and I don't want to keep you.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:49 But again, I'd like to learn a little bit about your process because based
00:10:49 --> 00:10:56 on how you do post-production, you could like basically a, like ask que,
00:10:56 --> 00:11:01 like just ask questions, record the whole interview, and then record your,
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 they're called interstitials, right?
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07 The things that you put in between their answers later.
00:11:08 --> 00:11:13 And kind of sew it all together so that it's you telling the story and then
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 you're using their answers to supplement.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:16 Right.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:22 So you know, Joe Casabona had been a web developer for 20 years and
00:11:22 --> 00:11:27 he was working with a client on and off for a good portion of that,
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 then the relationship went sour.
00:11:29 --> 00:11:30 Here's how.
00:11:30 --> 00:11:34 Then you might wanna have a, a clip of a lawyer you're talking to, going
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 like, it doesn't matter if you're friends with the person, you always
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 need to have a contract in place.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 Joe didn't have a contract in place.
00:11:41 --> 00:11:41 Right?
00:11:41 --> 00:11:46 Like, that's like that sort of stuff where it's, it's almost like your
00:11:46 --> 00:11:52 podcast and you are using their answers to support what you're talking about.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:54 Is that successful?
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 Hugely, like Serial does that, right?
00:11:57 --> 00:12:01 Like Serial and Suspect like the true crime shows, right?
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 Where they're weaving the story and then they're getting like clips from
00:12:05 --> 00:12:11 the people involved, the, the guy in jail, the, the public defendant who's
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13 trying to get them outta jail, whatever.
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 Cuz then like, cuz then you can control it a lot more.
00:12:17 --> 00:12:17 So.
00:12:18 --> 00:12:22 And I generally don't recommend this to people unless they have like the time
00:12:22 --> 00:12:28 and the ability or the, the time and the budget to do that kind of editing.
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 Amie: I do all the editing, so I, I mean, I use Camtasia.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:32 It's nice.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:33 Yeah.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 So it's like, it's not a big deal.
00:12:35 --> 00:12:40 I just don't know how to properly do the podcast.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:45 I figured like the conversational style would've been the way to go.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:50 But how you're saying like, I could, let me make sure I understand you right.
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 So I'm recording in conversation with a lawyer.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:53 Mm-hmm.
00:12:54 --> 00:12:58 And I'm asking them the questions and we're having a conversation and
00:12:58 --> 00:13:03 then I go into editing and I only grab like the really good answers
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06 and then I go back and I fill myself.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:07 Cuz it's also video too.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:07 Yeah.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:12 So I feel myself weaving the stories in between.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:14 Their answers.
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17 Joe: Yeah, that's, and like, I mean, maybe if it's a good conversation, right?
00:13:17 --> 00:13:22 You, you keep it conversational, but like, if you're getting like short answers or
00:13:22 --> 00:13:28 boring answers right then and the way to do it, and this is something you'd
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 have to keep, like I would probably, if I was doing it this way, I would
00:13:30 --> 00:13:35 keep a post-it note like right here to be like, pause after their answer.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:36 Okay.
00:13:36 --> 00:13:39 And pause and because you wanna make sure that.
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 You're leaving and I mean, I guess if you're just getting
00:13:42 --> 00:13:43 their track, it doesn't matter.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 But you want a little bit of a gap to make it a little easier to edit.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:48 Yeah.
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51 But yeah, cuz then, then you're essentially, and I'm like
00:13:51 --> 00:13:52 jumping all over the place.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 But then you're essentially getting like B-roll, right?
00:13:55 --> 00:13:59 For the actual, like, this is like the, oh, ever watch the Daily Show?
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 Okay, so on the Daily Show or, or Colbert, right?
00:14:04 --> 00:14:08 They would have these ridiculous interviews with real people, but they
00:14:08 --> 00:14:10 weren't being serious journalists.
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 Like there's no way that they just re like, released that
00:14:13 --> 00:14:14 interview unedited, right?
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 Because they're, they're editing for comedic impact, right?
00:14:18 --> 00:14:18 Yeah.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:19 Yeah.
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 It, it's like how Jay Leno's, like man on the street interviews, they
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 only picked the dumbest people, right?
00:14:25 --> 00:14:27 Most people probably know.
00:14:27 --> 00:14:33 Who the first president was, but like the five people who were stupid enough
00:14:33 --> 00:14:37 to be like King George or whatever, like those are the people that they really
00:14:37 --> 00:14:39 like milked the, the footage out of.
00:14:39 --> 00:14:40 Right.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42 So yeah, so you could definitely do it that way.
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44 And it's a, it's really interesting.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:45 Founders will do this too, right?
00:14:45 --> 00:14:52 Where they hire a podcast production company and the host that they hire,
00:14:53 --> 00:14:59 Is basically just there to, to elicit good answers from the founder so that
00:14:59 --> 00:15:05 the founder has a podcast because they can't just talk on their own.
00:15:05 --> 00:15:05 Right?
00:15:05 --> 00:15:06 Like, right.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:11 Some people have a hard time talking for, oh, 20 minutes a half hour straight.
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 I obviously don't have that problem cuz I'm really, I talk a lot.
00:15:15 --> 00:15:17 But like, you know, some people like, what would I even talk about?
00:15:17 --> 00:15:18 Right?
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 So like, the job of the interviewer, here's what you can talk about.
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 So I know I gave you a lot of stuff there.
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 Hope, hopefully it was there were at least a couple.
00:15:26 --> 00:15:28 I, i a couple things that you can maybe start trying.
00:15:29 --> 00:15:30 Well now I
00:15:30 --> 00:15:33 Amie: thank you so much by the way and I'm really glad you recorded this.
00:15:33 --> 00:15:33 Yeah.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:39 So what were your examples of the ones where they only use the main
00:15:39 --> 00:15:40 Joe: clips?
00:15:40 --> 00:15:40 Mm, yeah.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:41 Yeah.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:41 Okay.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 So a lot from Wondery is the podcast network.
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 So like Wondery Wondery a Wonder with a why at the end of it.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 Suspect is one.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:54 So that's a True Crime podcast where basically the journalist is telling
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 a story and then they're using.
00:15:57 --> 00:16:02 You know, not footage, but audio that they got from the people
00:16:02 --> 00:16:07 they interviewed to supplement and support what they're talking about.
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 So it'll be like you know, Leon was just a kid.
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 He didn't even know what was going on when he was arrested.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 And then like, they'll cut to Leon talking about how like, I
00:16:16 --> 00:16:18 had no idea what I was doing, man.
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 And then now that I'm in my forties, I know better or whatever.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:23 Like, so like, it's like sort of like that.
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 Something closer to what you might do.
00:16:27 --> 00:16:31 My friend Yang Sue Chung, has a podcast called First Class Founders.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:39 And so he will interview a founder and, and he'll grab the story and
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42 he'll basically do the same thing.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:49 So he'll be like you know, KeHE used to be a, a a Wall Street or an investor.
00:16:50 --> 00:16:51 BlackRock.
00:16:52 --> 00:16:56 And he was well on his way to making a million dollar salary and then he quit
00:16:57 --> 00:17:01 and then it'll cut to KeHE talking about how like they always say the best time
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 to quit is after next year's bonus.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 And I was in that cycle.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 And then one year I just decided it's time to go.
00:17:07 --> 00:17:07 Right.
00:17:07 --> 00:17:11 So like that's the sort of thing that I think could work really well for you.
00:17:11 --> 00:17:15 So And it does take a little pre like pre-thought, right?
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 If you're gonna have like an estate planning lawyer or whatever, right?
00:17:18 --> 00:17:21 You're gonna wanna know the hook, right?
00:17:21 --> 00:17:25 Like before, and then kind of ask those questions to elicit answers.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:31 You might be like worst case scenario, what happens if you know, both
00:17:31 --> 00:17:34 parents die in a car accident and they leave a kid behind or whatever.
00:17:35 --> 00:17:35 Right.
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 Ask them that question and then you don't necessarily have to lead in
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 with that, but you could say like, how important is estate planning?
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 Well, I asked Johnny Lawyer over here.
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 I'm so good at coming up with names.
00:17:48 --> 00:17:53 I asked Johnny Lawyer, what could happen to kids in the event of an
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 untimely death of both parents?
00:17:55 --> 00:17:59 And then you have that answer, and then you can be like, you know,
00:17:59 --> 00:18:03 as a mother of two kids, myself, That really hit home for me.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06 Amie: Oh man, you're giving me so many ideas.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:07 Okay.
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 Does it, does it have to be structurally the same though?
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 Like like with each podcast episode, like is it okay if
00:18:15 --> 00:18:19 like one is like conversational style, me and the other person?
00:18:19 --> 00:18:20 Cuz it's a really good conversation.
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 Joe: This is a great time to experiment, right?
00:18:23 --> 00:18:23 Mm-hmm.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:27 Like, maybe, maybe one format works, right?
00:18:27 --> 00:18:31 Like, like, look at your best performing episode so far.
00:18:31 --> 00:18:32 See how that's done?
00:18:33 --> 00:18:37 Switch up the format a little bit and then kind of see how that does over time.
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 And again, like if you have like a couple of good interviews, right?
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42 Like just release them as you normally would.
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 But then like when you get a bad one, you'd be like, all
00:18:45 --> 00:18:46 right, I'm gonna try this.
00:18:47 --> 00:18:48 This perfect thing.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:48 Yeah.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:50 Oh my gosh.
00:18:50 --> 00:18:52 Amie: Thank you so much.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:53 Yeah, no problem.
00:18:53 --> 00:18:54 I thought all, all of 'em
00:18:54 --> 00:18:55 Joe: had to be the same.
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 No, I like, I am bullish on mixing it up
00:19:00 --> 00:19:04 so for like the first 150 episodes of my podcast, I asked the same five questions.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 Oh, see, that's, yeah.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:07 That's me.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:08 Yeah.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:12 And like it was okay for the first hundred or so episodes.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 But then I started to notice my downloads going down, right?
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 Because like more people were podcasting.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 And it just didn't, it didn't become very interesting after a while.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:22 And so then I mixed it up.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:26 So now I have the interviews I still do, and they're not, they're
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 not never the same five questions.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:29 They're very guest specific.
00:19:29 --> 00:19:33 I have solo episodes where it's like me talking for 20 minutes on
00:19:33 --> 00:19:39 a topic and every Friday I have a, a five to 10 minute episode.
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 About a specific tool that I've been trying and enjoying.
00:19:43 --> 00:19:45 That is so cool.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:45 Amie: Yeah.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 I gotta get, I gotta get on your podcast and start listening.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:49 Yeah.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:50 That's cool.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 So you mix it up and you're able to see what works
00:19:53 --> 00:19:54 Joe: best.
00:19:54 --> 00:19:54 Yeah.
00:19:54 --> 00:19:55 What does well, right.
00:19:55 --> 00:20:00 What doesn't do well what guests resonated more stuff like that.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:00 Right.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01 And, and.
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 As you experiment more, you kind of see, oh, like this really
00:20:05 --> 00:20:06 the only problem is right.
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 It's like if you do this one and it takes you like forever and it like
00:20:09 --> 00:20:10 kills it, now you're like, oh man.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 Now I'm on the hook for like 10 hours of work for every episode.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:13 Right,
00:20:15 --> 00:20:15 Amie: right.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16 Yeah.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:20 So, so do you do the video too, or is it just audio?
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 Joe: I just do audio right now.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:27 I release the audio only on YouTube and for my solo show
00:20:28 --> 00:20:29 I keep the camera rolling.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:30 Oh, okay.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 And so I'll use that to like release clips and stuff, so, yeah.
00:20:33 --> 00:20:34 Yeah.
00:20:34 --> 00:20:37 So I don't do the, the video editing side of things.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:40 Just cuz like, I think you know, again, I've been podcasting for like
00:20:40 --> 00:20:42 over 10 years and so like, oh wow.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:43 Yeah.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:45 I had no idea.
00:20:45 --> 00:20:45 Oh yeah.
00:20:45 --> 00:20:46 Yeah.
00:20:46 --> 00:20:47 I've been doing it for a while.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:47 Dang.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 So I've made like every mistake.
00:20:50 --> 00:20:51 I feel so much better now.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:52 Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:56 Like I, my first show was like legit, just like me and three friends, like talking
00:20:56 --> 00:20:57 about something we knew nothing about.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 I was like, we should, A podcast is just like a barroom conversation.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:03 Like, do you know how terrible that podcast is?
00:21:03 --> 00:21:03 It's terrible.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 Amie: Well, it's kind of like Seinfeld a show about nothing.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:07 Joe: Yeah.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:07 Right.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:07 Yeah.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 Except like there were good writers on Seinfeld, right.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 And like, it was just like, oh, so like, what's this Bitcoin thing?
00:21:13 --> 00:21:14 Like, oh, I don't know.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:15 I think it's like digital money.
00:21:16 --> 00:21:17 Like that was like an actual episode.
00:21:17 --> 00:21:20 We did an episode on Bitcoin and none of us researched Bitcoin.
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 Like, we just started talking about it on Skype.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:23 Oh, you're just B fing.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 At this point, we had to end the conversation because Amy's
00:21:27 --> 00:21:28 kids were getting hungry.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 Uh, Amy was a few hours behind me, timezone wise.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 And so my kids had already eaten, but hers had not.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:38 So, um, we, this was a really good place to stop it though.
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 I think because we covered a lot of ground, right.
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44 I told her a little bit about my experience, making all of
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46 the mistakes, how she can.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:48 Mix up her format and test a little bit.
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 And one of the things, the important things I think here was.
00:21:53 --> 00:21:57 Her allowing her guests to add a disclaimer.
00:21:57 --> 00:21:57 Right?
00:21:57 --> 00:22:03 This was something like I said, that I've done with some of my lawyer, guests
00:22:03 --> 00:22:05 and other professional guests, because.
00:22:05 --> 00:22:08 People hear professional talking and they're going to
00:22:09 --> 00:22:10 think that's legal advice.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:10 Right?
00:22:10 --> 00:22:14 And so this makes in my experience, especially attorneys hesitant.
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17 To say things definitively.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:21 So adding that disclaimer, having that pre-interview will definitely
00:22:21 --> 00:22:22 open the guests up a little bit more.
00:22:22 --> 00:22:26 If you like this and you want your own coaching call, you
00:22:26 --> 00:22:27 can head over to podcast.
00:22:27 --> 00:22:28 liftoff.com.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:30 Slash coaching.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:31 There are a few options there.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:36 And, uh, be sure to be on the lookout for.
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 More episodes of this show coming out very soon.
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 Thanks so much for listening.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 And I can't wait to see what you make.