Amie was struggling to get good conversations from her legally technical guests, so she reached out for a coaching call where we discussed a number of things:
- Weaving story into the answers your guests give
- The importance of a pre-interview
- How to make sure your guest gives the best stuff during the recording
- Permission to nix a bad interview.
If you want your own coaching call, head to https://podcastliftoff.com/coaching/ - Mention this and the permission to publish YOURS, and I'll give you a discount.
Join my Podcast Workflows newsletter: https://podcastworkflows.com
★ Support this podcast ★NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00 --> 00:00:00 Hey everybody.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:05 As I prepare for the next season of podcast workflows, I wanted to give you
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 a little pre-seasoned bonus episode.
00:00:08 --> 00:00:11 That is a coaching call I had with Amy.
00:00:12 --> 00:00:17 Amy was struggling to get good conversations.
00:00:17 --> 00:00:18 From her guests.
00:00:18 --> 00:00:19 She has a.
00:00:19 --> 00:00:25 Uh, pretty technical podcast technical in the professional sense, not in the.
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 Techie sense, like computer sense.
00:00:28 --> 00:00:32 She interviews lawyers, attorneys, and people in the legal space.
00:00:32 --> 00:00:33 And so she has a hard time.
00:00:34 --> 00:00:38 Writing those stories and what prompted her to reach out to
00:00:38 --> 00:00:40 me was she attended a webinar.
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45 I hosted where I talked about seven mistakes that podcasters make, and
00:00:45 --> 00:00:47 one is not forming the narrative.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:49 And so she hopped on a coaching call with me.
00:00:50 --> 00:00:55 And we talked about how to leverage a pre-interview.
00:00:55 --> 00:01:00 To elicit those good questions and those good conversations.
00:01:00 --> 00:01:04 And we talked about a storytelling format where instead of her just doing
00:01:04 --> 00:01:07 a straight conversation, she can.
00:01:07 --> 00:01:13 Record, uh, the questions and answers, grab the answers and
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 then write a story around it.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:18 So I really enjoyed this call with Amy.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:19 I think that.
00:01:20 --> 00:01:21 She has the.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:25 Uh, drive in the resources to be able to do some of the things we talked about.
00:01:25 --> 00:01:27 I'm really excited about.
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 Uh, where her show is going to go from here.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 So this is pretty much a straight call.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:34 Uh, not too.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:38 I edited some parts out for clarity and I edited.
00:01:38 --> 00:01:43 I added a little disclaimer, kind of at one point where, um, we wanted
00:01:43 --> 00:01:47 to protect the identity of some people that we were talking about.
00:01:47 --> 00:01:49 But other than that, it's a pretty straightforward conversation.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:50 I hope you enjoy it.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:56 Uh, if you want to get all of the show notes and learn more about what
00:01:56 --> 00:02:00 Amy is doing, check for the link in the description in your podcast
00:02:00 --> 00:02:04 player, and you can join my mailing list over@podcastworkflows.com.
00:02:04 --> 00:02:08 Otherwise, here is my conversation with Amy.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:12 Joe: Okay, so your employer told you you should start a podcast.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 So tell me a little, the thing that I like to well, I always like
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 to ask the first question, like, what's your biggest struggle?
00:02:18 --> 00:02:20 And then I'm like really into process stuff.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:24 So I'd love to know like, how you produce your podcast, but it sounds
00:02:24 --> 00:02:29 like the harder part for you is actually getting like the good conversations.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:30 That's the hard
00:02:30 --> 00:02:31 Amie: part.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:31 Okay.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:33 Because everything's pretty high and dry.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:34 Yeah.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:41 It's, I mean, yeah, so when you were talking about stories like that
00:02:41 --> 00:02:43 totally rings a hundred percent to me.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:44 A hundred percent.
00:02:44 --> 00:02:46 Cuz I'm also a copywriter.
00:02:47 --> 00:02:47 Okay.
00:02:47 --> 00:02:47 Stories.
00:02:48 --> 00:02:49 So I love stories.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:49 Nice.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:50 I'm all about it.
00:02:50 --> 00:02:51 Yeah.
00:02:51 --> 00:02:56 So it's like, man, I so wanna tell stories, but I know like, cuz when you
00:02:56 --> 00:03:01 talk about developers and how they, they answer questions directly, it's like, oh.
00:03:02 --> 00:03:02 Mm-hmm.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:04 Come on, let's add some fluff.
00:03:04 --> 00:03:05 Let's add some fluff.
00:03:06 --> 00:03:06 Joe: Yeah.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 So there's a couple of things that you could do.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:14 I shared I do these like deep dives on podcast workflows, and I just
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 did one on one of my favorite shows History Daily about how, and I think
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21 I mentioned this during the, the live stream, but like, yeah, he'll take
00:03:21 --> 00:03:26 a seemingly dry topic and turn it into this really interesting story.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:30 So this creates more work in the edit, but something that
00:03:30 --> 00:03:34 you could do is get the answers.
00:03:34 --> 00:03:40 From the, from your guest, and then you could weave stories around the answers.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:43 So at this point, I ask Amy.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:49 To tell me a little bit about a horror story or a bad guest that she had.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:51 And she gets pretty specific.
00:03:51 --> 00:03:53 She doesn't name names, but I think that.
00:03:54 --> 00:03:58 Anybody familiar with her show and certainly the people who are on that show.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:00 Would know who she's talking about here.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:06 So to protect Amy and protect her, I'm going to recount this a little bit.
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 And, and have some of her commentary.
00:04:08 --> 00:04:11 That's heavily edited, but basically she had a guest.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 Where she had multiple folks, including at least one attorney.
00:04:16 --> 00:04:21 And she really wants to talk about one aspect of like a
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 common aspect of these people.
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 So you know, if it's in attorney, client thing,
00:04:26 --> 00:04:30 Maybe she has the attorney and the client who's willing to talk about their case.
00:04:30 --> 00:04:31 But in this case,
00:04:33 --> 00:04:37 The person that she wanted to talk to the most.
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 Didn't say much.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:45 And the other person basically just spent the whole time.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:47 Pitching their services.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:51 So she didn't really get a good recording.
00:04:52 --> 00:04:53 That she could use.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 Out of this and, and that's, I wanted to provide a little bit
00:04:56 --> 00:05:00 of context there so that I didn't have to recount her whole story.
00:05:00 --> 00:05:04 And possibly give away to people in the know who she's talking about.
00:05:04 --> 00:05:06 Amie: I learned my lesson with this one.
00:05:07 --> 00:05:09 So what this podcast episode was, was an attorney.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:14 This guy and they were both talking about how it helps bring in clients.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:19 So I was hoping to get more of the attorney on the podcast.
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 But it was just one giant pitch.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:22 Yeah.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:24 And I did not see that one coming.
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 So, yeah.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:27 Yeah.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 Is what ended up happening was, thankfully these aren't
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 recorded, li I just record 'em.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:32 Yeah.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 And then I go back and I add my own stuff.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:36 Kind of like what you were saying.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:38 Joe: Yeah.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 So this is like, yeah.
00:05:41 --> 00:05:45 This is where a pre-interview will save me too, because like I've gotten pitches.
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48 I got somebody who was like, I'd love to come on your podcast also.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:50 This episode needs to be out by this date.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 And I'm like, oh, no, you, what you're talking about is sponsorship.
00:05:53 --> 00:05:55 Like that's this.
00:05:55 --> 00:05:59 If you want, if you want a specific date and wanna talk about specific
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 things, that is something you pay for.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:05 But he was talking about like time management, which.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:08 Really good for both developers and creators.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:08 Right.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:10 Unlike basically anybody almost.
00:06:10 --> 00:06:15 So I kind of read him the riot act before he recorded and I was like, if
00:06:15 --> 00:06:21 there's like a whiff of pitching your thing in this episode, it will not air.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:22 Oh man.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:24 Amie: That's great.
00:06:25 --> 00:06:26 I need to be bold like
00:06:26 --> 00:06:26 Joe: you.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:29 Yeah, I mean like that's, you know, I mean, I'm from New
00:06:29 --> 00:06:30 York, so like we're just very.
00:06:31 --> 00:06:32 Candid and direct.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 Amie: It sounds like I need to Okay.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:41 Be more of a New Yorker and be more bold because we email back and forth.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:45 What I ran into is that I would pre-interview these people.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:46 Yeah.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:49 And the.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53 I don't know if this is what it's like for you, but it's always the same thing.
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 Like it'd be like, I'd be like, all right, it's like gonna be a 10 minute phone call.
00:06:57 --> 00:06:57 Me and you.
00:06:57 --> 00:07:01 We've never spoken before or like Yeah, even before the podcast.
00:07:01 --> 00:07:06 Yeah, like the day of and before I'm able to hit record.
00:07:06 --> 00:07:07 They give me all the juicy stuff.
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 Like right off the bat, like all the good stuff.
00:07:11 --> 00:07:12 Yeah, that's, and then I'm like, why
00:07:12 --> 00:07:13 Joe: aren't you, this
00:07:13 --> 00:07:14 Amie: isn't a podcast yet.
00:07:14 --> 00:07:15 Joe: Don't tell me this now.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:16 Yeah.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:18 So that, that happens to me all the time.
00:07:18 --> 00:07:18 But that's good, right?
00:07:18 --> 00:07:22 Because I write it down and then I say, okay, save that energy.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:22 Keep it.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 I'm gonna ask you the same thing during the recording.
00:07:25 --> 00:07:25 Okay.
00:07:26 --> 00:07:30 And most, I mean, at least most people in my space understand, like, I'm gonna ask
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 them as if I've never heard it before.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:33 Right, right.
00:07:33 --> 00:07:37 So it's like, so, you know, oh, you were telling us about, you know, some
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 interesting, I don't know, I dunno if you interviewed trial lawyers
00:07:40 --> 00:07:42 or not, but like an interesting court case or whatever, right?
00:07:42 --> 00:07:46 Or like estate planning, you know, like how do we make that interesting, right?
00:07:46 --> 00:07:50 Like right, so you were telling me this thing can you give us the details of that?
00:07:50 --> 00:07:50 Right?
00:07:50 --> 00:07:51 Like, something like that, right?
00:07:51 --> 00:07:55 Like tee it up so that they can, they can tell that story again because like,
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 most lawyers have good stories, right?
00:07:59 --> 00:08:00 So, Or should,
00:08:00 --> 00:08:03 Amie: but, but they're like, that's confidential information, like Right.
00:08:04 --> 00:08:05 Joe: Yeah.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 Just don't use names right with me here.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:12 So, so what I'll do, so if they, so if they do that, what I would do is
00:08:13 --> 00:08:20 I will create a fabricated scenario that is very similar to the one
00:08:20 --> 00:08:21 where they can't give the details.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:27 Let's say I didn't have a contract in place with a client.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:31 They prepaid me for work and then disappeared for four years.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 Now they're asking for the money back.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 Do I have to give them that money?
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 so like usually I would paint that picture, like paint a
00:08:40 --> 00:08:41 picture like that, right?
00:08:41 --> 00:08:50 Where they don't have to, they could give their non-binding advice as a profession.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 Because this is the other thing, like every lawyer I've had on, on my
00:08:53 --> 00:08:55 show every, like, it's all the time.
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 I've had a couple and I'm like, you wanna throw a disclaimer at the
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 beginning that anything they hear on this show is not legal advice.
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 And that they should consult a real lawyer in their field or whatever.
00:09:04 --> 00:09:05 They're like, yeah, that's a good idea.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 And I'm like, yeah, I know it's a good idea.
00:09:08 --> 00:09:09 Amie: So, all right, so adding that
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 Joe: disclaimer would really help.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:11 Yeah.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:12 Yeah.
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 Because cuz then like, cuz you know, there are people who'd be like,
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 well I heard this on a podcast.
00:09:16 --> 00:09:18 And I'm like, all right, well that's like not advice for you, right?
00:09:19 --> 00:09:19 Mm-hmm.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 I always, if I talk about like copyright or something, I might always, like,
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 I'm not a lawyer, let's be clear.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:29 This is how I understand it, but I'm not, don't.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:30 Don't think I'm right.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:34 So yeah, like having that disclaimer might, you know, you could always say
00:09:34 --> 00:09:38 like, oh yeah, we have a, whenever we have a lawyer on the show, we
00:09:38 --> 00:09:42 have a prerecorded disclaimer at the beginning that says, you know, the
00:09:42 --> 00:09:46 things that you hear on this show should not be considered legal advice.
00:09:46 --> 00:09:51 And you should you know, consult a lawyer in your state or your country,
00:09:51 --> 00:09:55 or whatever, you know, however, You can wordsmith that part, I think.
00:09:55 --> 00:09:55 Right?
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 And that might, that might help open them up a little bit.
00:09:59 --> 00:10:05 And then like bud creating these hypothetical situations instead of asking
00:10:05 --> 00:10:11 them like direct, direct details about a case could also open them up a little bit.
00:10:11 --> 00:10:12 Yeah.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:14 So those are the things that I would generally recommend.
00:10:14 --> 00:10:18 Like, and again, like the pre-interview, don't, like, don't worry about
00:10:18 --> 00:10:21 guests repeating things in the pre-show and the main show because
00:10:21 --> 00:10:23 You know, this is, this is for you.
00:10:23 --> 00:10:27 You're eliciting information that you want to be stated on the main show, right?
00:10:27 --> 00:10:31 So even if you repeat like everything you talk about on the pre-show for your
00:10:31 --> 00:10:35 audience, like that's fine because now you can also think of good follow-up questions
00:10:35 --> 00:10:38 or thing like context to add as well.
00:10:38 --> 00:10:39 That's true.
00:10:39 --> 00:10:40 Yeah.
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 And then, Again, the other thing I do like, depending on how much
00:10:43 --> 00:10:47 editing, and I know it's almost lunchtime and I don't want to keep you.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:49 But again, I'd like to learn a little bit about your process because based
00:10:49 --> 00:10:56 on how you do post-production, you could like basically a, like ask que,
00:10:56 --> 00:11:01 like just ask questions, record the whole interview, and then record your,
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 they're called interstitials, right?
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07 The things that you put in between their answers later.
00:11:08 --> 00:11:13 And kind of sew it all together so that it's you telling the story and then
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 you're using their answers to supplement.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:16 Right.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:22 So you know, Joe Casabona had been a web developer for 20 years and
00:11:22 --> 00:11:27 he was working with a client on and off for a good portion of that,
00:11:27 --> 00:11:29 then the relationship went sour.
00:11:29 --> 00:11:30 Here's how.
00:11:30 --> 00:11:34 Then you might wanna have a, a clip of a lawyer you're talking to, going
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 like, it doesn't matter if you're friends with the person, you always
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 need to have a contract in place.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:41 Joe didn't have a contract in place.
00:11:41 --> 00:11:41 Right?
00:11:41 --> 00:11:46 Like, that's like that sort of stuff where it's, it's almost like your
00:11:46 --> 00:11:52 podcast and you are using their answers to support what you're talking about.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:54 Is that successful?
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 Hugely, like Serial does that, right?
00:11:57 --> 00:12:01 Like Serial and Suspect like the true crime shows, right?
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 Where they're weaving the story and then they're getting like clips from
00:12:05 --> 00:12:11 the people involved, the, the guy in jail, the, the public defendant who's
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13 trying to get them outta jail, whatever.
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 Cuz then like, cuz then you can control it a lot more.
00:12:17 --> 00:12:17 So.
00:12:18 --> 00:12:22 And I generally don't recommend this to people unless they have like the time
00:12:22 --> 00:12:28 and the ability or the, the time and the budget to do that kind of editing.
00:12:28 --> 00:12:31 Amie: I do all the editing, so I, I mean, I use Camtasia.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:32 It's nice.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:33 Yeah.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:35 So it's like, it's not a big deal.
00:12:35 --> 00:12:40 I just don't know how to properly do the podcast.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:45 I figured like the conversational style would've been the way to go.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:50 But how you're saying like, I could, let me make sure I understand you right.
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 So I'm recording in conversation with a lawyer.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:53 Mm-hmm.
00:12:54 --> 00:12:58 And I'm asking them the questions and we're having a conversation and
00:12:58 --> 00:13:03 then I go into editing and I only grab like the really good answers
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06 and then I go back and I fill myself.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:07 Cuz it's also video too.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:07 Yeah.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:12 So I feel myself weaving the stories in between.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:14 Their answers.
00:13:14 --> 00:13:17 Joe: Yeah, that's, and like, I mean, maybe if it's a good conversation, right?
00:13:17 --> 00:13:22 You, you keep it conversational, but like, if you're getting like short answers or
00:13:22 --> 00:13:28 boring answers right then and the way to do it, and this is something you'd
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 have to keep, like I would probably, if I was doing it this way, I would
00:13:30 --> 00:13:35 keep a post-it note like right here to be like, pause after their answer.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:36 Okay.
00:13:36 --> 00:13:39 And pause and because you wanna make sure that.
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 You're leaving and I mean, I guess if you're just getting
00:13:42 --> 00:13:43 their track, it doesn't matter.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:46 But you want a little bit of a gap to make it a little easier to edit.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:48 Yeah.
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51 But yeah, cuz then, then you're essentially, and I'm like
00:13:51 --> 00:13:52 jumping all over the place.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 But then you're essentially getting like B-roll, right?
00:13:55 --> 00:13:59 For the actual, like, this is like the, oh, ever watch the Daily Show?
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 Okay, so on the Daily Show or, or Colbert, right?
00:14:04 --> 00:14:08 They would have these ridiculous interviews with real people, but they
00:14:08 --> 00:14:10 weren't being serious journalists.
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 Like there's no way that they just re like, released that
00:14:13 --> 00:14:14 interview unedited, right?
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 Because they're, they're editing for comedic impact, right?
00:14:18 --> 00:14:18 Yeah.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:19 Yeah.
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 It, it's like how Jay Leno's, like man on the street interviews, they
00:14:22 --> 00:14:24 only picked the dumbest people, right?
00:14:25 --> 00:14:27 Most people probably know.
00:14:27 --> 00:14:33 Who the first president was, but like the five people who were stupid enough
00:14:33 --> 00:14:37 to be like King George or whatever, like those are the people that they really
00:14:37 --> 00:14:39 like milked the, the footage out of.
00:14:39 --> 00:14:40 Right.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42 So yeah, so you could definitely do it that way.
00:14:42 --> 00:14:44 And it's a, it's really interesting.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:45 Founders will do this too, right?
00:14:45 --> 00:14:52 Where they hire a podcast production company and the host that they hire,
00:14:53 --> 00:14:59 Is basically just there to, to elicit good answers from the founder so that
00:14:59 --> 00:15:05 the founder has a podcast because they can't just talk on their own.
00:15:05 --> 00:15:05 Right?
00:15:05 --> 00:15:06 Like, right.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:11 Some people have a hard time talking for, oh, 20 minutes a half hour straight.
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 I obviously don't have that problem cuz I'm really, I talk a lot.
00:15:15 --> 00:15:17 But like, you know, some people like, what would I even talk about?
00:15:17 --> 00:15:18 Right?
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 So like, the job of the interviewer, here's what you can talk about.
00:15:21 --> 00:15:23 So I know I gave you a lot of stuff there.
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 Hope, hopefully it was there were at least a couple.
00:15:26 --> 00:15:28 I, i a couple things that you can maybe start trying.
00:15:29 --> 00:15:30 Well now I
00:15:30 --> 00:15:33 Amie: thank you so much by the way and I'm really glad you recorded this.
00:15:33 --> 00:15:33 Yeah.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:39 So what were your examples of the ones where they only use the main
00:15:39 --> 00:15:40 Joe: clips?
00:15:40 --> 00:15:40 Mm, yeah.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:41 Yeah.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:41 Okay.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 So a lot from Wondery is the podcast network.
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 So like Wondery Wondery a Wonder with a why at the end of it.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 Suspect is one.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:54 So that's a True Crime podcast where basically the journalist is telling
00:15:54 --> 00:15:57 a story and then they're using.
00:15:57 --> 00:16:02 You know, not footage, but audio that they got from the people
00:16:02 --> 00:16:07 they interviewed to supplement and support what they're talking about.
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 So it'll be like you know, Leon was just a kid.
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 He didn't even know what was going on when he was arrested.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:16 And then like, they'll cut to Leon talking about how like, I
00:16:16 --> 00:16:18 had no idea what I was doing, man.
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 And then now that I'm in my forties, I know better or whatever.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:23 Like, so like, it's like sort of like that.
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 Something closer to what you might do.
00:16:27 --> 00:16:31 My friend Yang Sue Chung, has a podcast called First Class Founders.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:39 And so he will interview a founder and, and he'll grab the story and
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42 he'll basically do the same thing.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:49 So he'll be like you know, KeHE used to be a, a a Wall Street or an investor.
00:16:50 --> 00:16:51 BlackRock.
00:16:52 --> 00:16:56 And he was well on his way to making a million dollar salary and then he quit
00:16:57 --> 00:17:01 and then it'll cut to KeHE talking about how like they always say the best time
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 to quit is after next year's bonus.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 And I was in that cycle.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 And then one year I just decided it's time to go.
00:17:07 --> 00:17:07 Right.
00:17:07 --> 00:17:11 So like that's the sort of thing that I think could work really well for you.
00:17:11 --> 00:17:15 So And it does take a little pre like pre-thought, right?
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 If you're gonna have like an estate planning lawyer or whatever, right?
00:17:18 --> 00:17:21 You're gonna wanna know the hook, right?
00:17:21 --> 00:17:25 Like before, and then kind of ask those questions to elicit answers.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:31 You might be like worst case scenario, what happens if you know, both
00:17:31 --> 00:17:34 parents die in a car accident and they leave a kid behind or whatever.
00:17:35 --> 00:17:35 Right.
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 Ask them that question and then you don't necessarily have to lead in
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 with that, but you could say like, how important is estate planning?
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 Well, I asked Johnny Lawyer over here.
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 I'm so good at coming up with names.
00:17:48 --> 00:17:53 I asked Johnny Lawyer, what could happen to kids in the event of an
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 untimely death of both parents?
00:17:55 --> 00:17:59 And then you have that answer, and then you can be like, you know,
00:17:59 --> 00:18:03 as a mother of two kids, myself, That really hit home for me.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:06 Amie: Oh man, you're giving me so many ideas.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:07 Okay.
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 Does it, does it have to be structurally the same though?
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 Like like with each podcast episode, like is it okay if
00:18:15 --> 00:18:19 like one is like conversational style, me and the other person?
00:18:19 --> 00:18:20 Cuz it's a really good conversation.
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 Joe: This is a great time to experiment, right?
00:18:23 --> 00:18:23 Mm-hmm.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:27 Like, maybe, maybe one format works, right?
00:18:27 --> 00:18:31 Like, like, look at your best performing episode so far.
00:18:31 --> 00:18:32 See how that's done?
00:18:33 --> 00:18:37 Switch up the format a little bit and then kind of see how that does over time.
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 And again, like if you have like a couple of good interviews, right?
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42 Like just release them as you normally would.
00:18:42 --> 00:18:45 But then like when you get a bad one, you'd be like, all
00:18:45 --> 00:18:46 right, I'm gonna try this.
00:18:47 --> 00:18:48 This perfect thing.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:48 Yeah.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:50 Oh my gosh.
00:18:50 --> 00:18:52 Amie: Thank you so much.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:53 Yeah, no problem.
00:18:53 --> 00:18:54 I thought all, all of 'em
00:18:54 --> 00:18:55 Joe: had to be the same.
00:18:56 --> 00:18:59 No, I like, I am bullish on mixing it up
00:19:00 --> 00:19:04 so for like the first 150 episodes of my podcast, I asked the same five questions.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 Oh, see, that's, yeah.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:07 That's me.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:08 Yeah.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:12 And like it was okay for the first hundred or so episodes.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 But then I started to notice my downloads going down, right?
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 Because like more people were podcasting.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 And it just didn't, it didn't become very interesting after a while.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:22 And so then I mixed it up.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:26 So now I have the interviews I still do, and they're not, they're
00:19:26 --> 00:19:28 not never the same five questions.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:29 They're very guest specific.
00:19:29 --> 00:19:33 I have solo episodes where it's like me talking for 20 minutes on
00:19:33 --> 00:19:39 a topic and every Friday I have a, a five to 10 minute episode.
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 About a specific tool that I've been trying and enjoying.
00:19:43 --> 00:19:45 That is so cool.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:45 Amie: Yeah.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 I gotta get, I gotta get on your podcast and start listening.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:49 Yeah.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:50 That's cool.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 So you mix it up and you're able to see what works
00:19:53 --> 00:19:54 Joe: best.
00:19:54 --> 00:19:54 Yeah.
00:19:54 --> 00:19:55 What does well, right.
00:19:55 --> 00:20:00 What doesn't do well what guests resonated more stuff like that.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:00 Right.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:01 And, and.
00:20:02 --> 00:20:04 As you experiment more, you kind of see, oh, like this really
00:20:05 --> 00:20:06 the only problem is right.
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 It's like if you do this one and it takes you like forever and it like
00:20:09 --> 00:20:10 kills it, now you're like, oh man.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:12 Now I'm on the hook for like 10 hours of work for every episode.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:13 Right,
00:20:15 --> 00:20:15 Amie: right.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:16 Yeah.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:20 So, so do you do the video too, or is it just audio?
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 Joe: I just do audio right now.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:27 I release the audio only on YouTube and for my solo show
00:20:28 --> 00:20:29 I keep the camera rolling.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:30 Oh, okay.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 And so I'll use that to like release clips and stuff, so, yeah.
00:20:33 --> 00:20:34 Yeah.
00:20:34 --> 00:20:37 So I don't do the, the video editing side of things.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:40 Just cuz like, I think you know, again, I've been podcasting for like
00:20:40 --> 00:20:42 over 10 years and so like, oh wow.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:43 Yeah.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:45 I had no idea.
00:20:45 --> 00:20:45 Oh yeah.
00:20:45 --> 00:20:46 Yeah.
00:20:46 --> 00:20:47 I've been doing it for a while.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:47 Dang.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 So I've made like every mistake.
00:20:50 --> 00:20:51 I feel so much better now.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:52 Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:56 Like I, my first show was like legit, just like me and three friends, like talking
00:20:56 --> 00:20:57 about something we knew nothing about.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 I was like, we should, A podcast is just like a barroom conversation.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:03 Like, do you know how terrible that podcast is?
00:21:03 --> 00:21:03 It's terrible.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 Amie: Well, it's kind of like Seinfeld a show about nothing.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:07 Joe: Yeah.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:07 Right.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:07 Yeah.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 Except like there were good writers on Seinfeld, right.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 And like, it was just like, oh, so like, what's this Bitcoin thing?
00:21:13 --> 00:21:14 Like, oh, I don't know.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:15 I think it's like digital money.
00:21:16 --> 00:21:17 Like that was like an actual episode.
00:21:17 --> 00:21:20 We did an episode on Bitcoin and none of us researched Bitcoin.
00:21:20 --> 00:21:22 Like, we just started talking about it on Skype.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:23 Oh, you're just B fing.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 At this point, we had to end the conversation because Amy's
00:21:27 --> 00:21:28 kids were getting hungry.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 Uh, Amy was a few hours behind me, timezone wise.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 And so my kids had already eaten, but hers had not.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:38 So, um, we, this was a really good place to stop it though.
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 I think because we covered a lot of ground, right.
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44 I told her a little bit about my experience, making all of
00:21:44 --> 00:21:46 the mistakes, how she can.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:48 Mix up her format and test a little bit.
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 And one of the things, the important things I think here was.
00:21:53 --> 00:21:57 Her allowing her guests to add a disclaimer.
00:21:57 --> 00:21:57 Right?
00:21:57 --> 00:22:03 This was something like I said, that I've done with some of my lawyer, guests
00:22:03 --> 00:22:05 and other professional guests, because.
00:22:05 --> 00:22:08 People hear professional talking and they're going to
00:22:09 --> 00:22:10 think that's legal advice.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:10 Right?
00:22:10 --> 00:22:14 And so this makes in my experience, especially attorneys hesitant.
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17 To say things definitively.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:21 So adding that disclaimer, having that pre-interview will definitely
00:22:21 --> 00:22:22 open the guests up a little bit more.
00:22:22 --> 00:22:26 If you like this and you want your own coaching call, you
00:22:26 --> 00:22:27 can head over to podcast.
00:22:27 --> 00:22:28 liftoff.com.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:30 Slash coaching.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:31 There are a few options there.
00:22:32 --> 00:22:36 And, uh, be sure to be on the lookout for.
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 More episodes of this show coming out very soon.
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 Thanks so much for listening.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:45 And I can't wait to see what you make.