I'm starting to wonder if a host/co-host format is actually the best format for a podcast.
I’ve been listening to a lot of different podcasts lately—rewatch shows, comedy shows, tech shows—and one thing keeps standing out: good banter makes a podcast worth coming back to.
But here’s the catch…banter only works when it supports the mission of the show. Get it right, and you create a bond with your audience.
Get it wrong, and your listeners tune out.
00:00:02 --> 00:00:06 Welcome to the Streamlined Podcaster, a podcast
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 that shows you how to put the right systems in
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 place so you can stop spinning your wheels, focus
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 on making great content and see your show grow.
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 Because there's nothing worse than putting a
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 ton of effort into your show to see very few
00:00:20 --> 00:00:24 benefits and even fewer downloads. My name is
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 Joe Casabona and I know you're strapped for time.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:31 So let's get into it. I have been thinking a
00:00:31 --> 00:00:37 lot about podcast formats lately. You know, for
00:00:37 --> 00:00:42 a long time it was, oh, it's always host, co
00:00:42 --> 00:00:46 -host or it's interviews. Most people who come
00:00:46 --> 00:00:51 to me want to start an interview podcast. There
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 is a number of people or there are a number of
00:00:53 --> 00:00:59 people who consider starting a solo show. I do
00:00:59 --> 00:01:03 a mix of both. This show is all solo episodes.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 Take note of that, people who are going to eventually
00:01:05 --> 00:01:12 pitch me to be on this show. But my other show,
00:01:12 --> 00:01:16 The Streamline Solopreneur, is a mix of solo
00:01:16 --> 00:01:20 episodes, interviews. And so I've been thinking
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 a lot about podcast format lately because podcasting
00:01:23 --> 00:01:28 is changing fundamentally, unavoidably. We've
00:01:28 --> 00:01:33 seen it in the news with like Wondery downsizing
00:01:33 --> 00:01:37 or shutting down and other story driven podcasts,
00:01:37 --> 00:01:42 right? Like these highly produced fictional podcasts
00:01:42 --> 00:01:46 that are shutting down. Serial, which is one
00:01:46 --> 00:01:54 of the podcasts that has really catapulted podcasting
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 like into the first wave of the mainstream, I
00:01:57 --> 00:02:01 would say. is, you know, publishes like fewer
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 episodes further between since they've been acquired
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 by the New York Times. The New York Times still
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 puts out a bunch of podcasts, but they are news
00:02:09 --> 00:02:13 based podcasts. And so. I've been trying to think
00:02:13 --> 00:02:21 about. In an age where our tools, AI take a shot,
00:02:21 --> 00:02:26 you know, the AI in 2025 drinking game. Our tools.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 have enabled us more than ever to be able to
00:02:32 --> 00:02:41 focus on creating really good content. But there
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 is, and I should say I'm not qualified to talk
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 about this. I've never done an audio drama. I
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 have talked to very few people who have done
00:02:50 --> 00:02:56 an audio drama, but is the audio drama format
00:02:56 --> 00:03:01 the right one for a podcast. Audiobooks are a
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 thing. In fact, Spotify is like doubling down
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 on audiobooks, right? They just added a new tier
00:03:06 --> 00:03:11 where you can buy more hours for audiobooks.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 I can't imagine that they would have done that
00:03:13 --> 00:03:20 if the first introduction of audiobooks to their
00:03:20 --> 00:03:25 audience was failing. So is it like, you know,
00:03:26 --> 00:03:30 Our audio drama is like a short run podcast,
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 which is perfectly fine, right? Like TV shows
00:03:32 --> 00:03:37 don't go on forever. So, like, do podcasts have
00:03:37 --> 00:03:41 to go on forever? I would say no. I think that
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 people think it's like you got to do it weekly,
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 you got to show up, but you don't necessarily
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 have to. You do a 10 episode audio drama and
00:03:48 --> 00:03:52 you've told a story for a fixed budget. And great.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:58 Good job. That's evergreen content. But I also
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 think that, like, most people, if you're listening
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 to this, you're probably thinking, oh, I have
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 an interview podcast. That seems like the easiest
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 type of content to create, right? Which it's
00:04:09 --> 00:04:13 not. Sorry to break it to you. There's a lot
00:04:13 --> 00:04:17 of work that goes into doing a good interview.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:23 A good interview. In a previous episode, I talked
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 about, like, don't make your guest provide questions
00:04:26 --> 00:04:32 to you. That is your job as the host. But, like,
00:04:32 --> 00:04:37 similarly, do research, right? Don't just, like,
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 don't just say we're going to have a casual conversation.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 Control the story, right? I have a document with
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 all of my interviews and I go over it with my
00:04:45 --> 00:04:48 guests before we record and... We don't strictly
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 stick to the script, try saying that ten times
00:04:51 --> 00:04:57 fast, but we do have a thread that we try to
00:04:57 --> 00:05:03 pull on and get back to. And I have been a little
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06 more heavy -handed in my edits lately to trim
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 out some of the extra stuff, especially when
00:05:09 --> 00:05:12 I interview friends and we kind of go off tangent.
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 I used to keep those in, I used to call them
00:05:14 --> 00:05:19 side quests, but I have to evolve, right? You
00:05:19 --> 00:05:23 know, I always think about the movie The Grand
00:05:23 --> 00:05:27 Hotel. Came out in like 1932. It's like, I think
00:05:27 --> 00:05:29 it's like Universal Pictures, like first great
00:05:29 --> 00:05:33 film. It's just people talking in a hotel, as
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 far as I'm like, I'm not like a cinephile. I
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 like movies, but I'm not, you know, I'm sorry
00:05:38 --> 00:05:42 if I'm like offending you by saying that. But
00:05:42 --> 00:05:47 my point is like, A good movie in 1932 was basically
00:05:47 --> 00:05:51 just like synchronized video and audio. That
00:05:51 --> 00:05:57 movie is boring today. Mediums evolve. And so
00:05:57 --> 00:06:01 like, back when I first started podcasting, the
00:06:01 --> 00:06:05 fact that I had a decent conversation with great
00:06:05 --> 00:06:10 audio was all I needed to do because most podcasts
00:06:10 --> 00:06:16 sounded terrible. or we're meandering, or like
00:06:16 --> 00:06:20 we're about Apple. I feel like most podcasts
00:06:20 --> 00:06:25 were about Apple. And so like, you know, we need
00:06:25 --> 00:06:30 to evolve. And so what is like, what does a good
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 podcast look like in 2025? I think if you're
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35 going to do a good interview, that could be good,
00:06:35 --> 00:06:40 right? But I'm starting to wonder if like the
00:06:40 --> 00:06:47 host, co -host format the best format. And I
00:06:47 --> 00:06:51 think it's because of the banter. It's easier
00:06:51 --> 00:06:55 to form a relationship, even if it's a parasocial
00:06:55 --> 00:07:01 relationship, with a host when they're doing
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03 more than just what I'm doing right now, which
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 is talk at you, right? Because I'm not doing
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 like an audio vlog. I'm not telling you about
00:07:07 --> 00:07:14 my day. I'm trying to stay focused on the topic.
00:07:15 --> 00:07:19 Which is, is host -co -host the best format?
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 And so it's maybe harder for you to form a bond
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 with me. Let me know. I mean, right at streamlinedfeedback
00:07:27 --> 00:07:28 .com and be like, no, you're wrong about that.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:32 I'm happy to hear that. But with a host -co -host
00:07:32 --> 00:07:36 format, there's more opportunity to get personal,
00:07:36 --> 00:07:41 to do... side quests, quote unquote, without
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 it seeming distracting because it is part of
00:07:44 --> 00:07:48 the lore of the show. And I have a few examples
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 here, right? You know, there's a show I really
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 like called Upgrade. It's with Jason Snell and
00:07:53 --> 00:07:57 Mike Hurley. It's from Relay. Relay .fm is the
00:07:57 --> 00:08:01 website. And they have banter, but they stay
00:08:01 --> 00:08:06 generally focused. Mike is on another show, which
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 is I should say that upgrade is technology, mostly
00:08:09 --> 00:08:14 Apple News. Connected, Mike is also on, also
00:08:14 --> 00:08:18 primarily tech slash Apple News. And he is on
00:08:18 --> 00:08:22 it with Federico Vettici and Stephen Hackett.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:27 And they are less focused. There's a lot of they
00:08:27 --> 00:08:29 say there's a lot of japs, right? There's a lot
00:08:29 --> 00:08:34 of tomfoolery and horsing around. But that's
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 like part of the lore of the show. You listen
00:08:37 --> 00:08:42 for that because they are all experts in this
00:08:42 --> 00:08:48 field, but it's fun. It's a fun version of what
00:08:48 --> 00:08:49 they're doing. It's a fun spin on what they're
00:08:49 --> 00:08:54 doing. Now, all of those guys are long time podcasters.
00:08:55 --> 00:08:59 They've been at it for a while. But let's look
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 at a more recent trend, right? Which I think
00:09:01 --> 00:09:05 probably happened with The Office Ladies, which
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 is like a rewatch podcast or maybe West Wing
00:09:08 --> 00:09:12 Weekly. But there are three rewatch podcasts
00:09:12 --> 00:09:16 that I listen to. Well, two I listen to. One,
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 I'll tell you why in a minute. But of some of
00:09:19 --> 00:09:24 my favorite shows, right? So one is Fake Doctors
00:09:24 --> 00:09:26 Real Friends with Zach Braff and Donald Faison.
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast and How
00:09:30 --> 00:09:35 We Made Your Mother. The two I listened to are
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast and How
00:09:37 --> 00:09:41 We Made Your Mother. I stopped listening pretty
00:09:41 --> 00:09:47 quickly to Fake Doctors Real Friends. Now this
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 like predates both of those shows by a while.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 So like it came out, I think it was pandemic
00:09:51 --> 00:09:55 era. I admittedly haven't listened to it in a
00:09:55 --> 00:09:59 while. But I gave it the old college try and
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 I just like couldn't do it. Even though Scrubs
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 is one of my favorite shows. Now I just checked
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 and as I'm recording this three days ago they
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 put out an episode called Our Last Hurrah. And
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 before that it was basically like Real Friends
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 classics. I scrolled back it looks like they
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 did make it through the entire series. And that
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 includes the spinoff right Scrubs Med School.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 But I stopped watching somewhere in season one.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 Because the show quickly got off the rails and
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 they were focused more on the lives of Zach Braff
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 and Donald Faison than on the actual show. And
00:10:35 --> 00:10:37 that's fine if that's how you're going to bill
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 it. Now they cursed a lot. And while I curse
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 a lot in my real life, I try not to curse a lot
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 on podcasts, especially because I like to listen
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 to podcasts in the car with my kids. That's neither
00:10:47 --> 00:10:53 here nor there. But... The banter went from banter
00:10:53 --> 00:10:58 to tangents that distracted. If we look at the
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast and How We
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 Made Your Mother, let's look at How We Made Your
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 Mother first. I think this is the most focused
00:11:04 --> 00:11:08 show of all of them. Just by virtue of it being
00:11:08 --> 00:11:12 two people. Maybe sometimes three when they bring
00:11:12 --> 00:11:16 on a guest, which they don't do every episode.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 It's focused. They walk through the episode.
00:11:19 --> 00:11:22 They talk a bit about it. I don't know if there's
00:11:22 --> 00:11:26 an outline. It seems really casual, but I think
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 they created a mission for the show and they
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 are sticking pretty strictly to that mission,
00:11:31 --> 00:11:35 at least in this first few months of the show.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 Now, the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast, there's
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42 a lot of banter. There's a lot of inside jokes,
00:11:42 --> 00:11:48 but it's kind of... It's part of the lore of
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 the show, like I was saying with Connected. You
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 know, they got an inside joke and they call their
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 listeners the Quaid army. And, you know, you
00:11:56 --> 00:11:59 say Quaid army and they respond righteous kill.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:03 And there's a whole bunch of nonsense. But ultimately,
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 the show is mostly about their time at SNL and
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 they're walking through all of their shorts,
00:12:09 --> 00:12:13 like the digital shorts that they did. They'll
00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 sometimes... diverge and talk about current projects
00:12:16 --> 00:12:21 and things like that, but I listen to get a behind
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 the scenes look at what it was like working at
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 SNL, what it was like creating digital shorts,
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 and an inside look at their creative process.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:35 And I get that, right? I'm listening to How We
00:12:35 --> 00:12:39 Made Your Mother because that show told such
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42 an incredible story, regardless of how you feel
00:12:42 --> 00:12:46 about the last season. So told such an incredible
00:12:46 --> 00:12:51 story which with such continuity That I want
00:12:51 --> 00:12:53 to know how it happened and like how they put
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 it all together and that's what I was curious
00:12:56 --> 00:13:01 about with fake doctors real friends, but it
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 quickly turned into like The thing I remember
00:13:04 --> 00:13:09 most about listening to that show was them talking
00:13:09 --> 00:13:13 about going to Cabo and like Johnny C. McGinley,
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 who played Dr. Cox, trying to get them back on
00:13:16 --> 00:13:23 track. And so like, I would love, maybe they
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 changed this, maybe they got feedback and they
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 course corrected. I'll have to listen again.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 But that's how they lost me. And so I'm telling
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 you all this because I think a host -co -host
00:13:36 --> 00:13:41 format could be really good. The banter is really
00:13:41 --> 00:13:45 important, but don't let the banter distract
00:13:45 --> 00:13:49 from the mission of the show. Don't let your
00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 show turn into a bunch of inside jokes with a
00:13:52 --> 00:13:56 friend at the risk of alienating the audience.
00:13:58 --> 00:14:02 A little bit of banter is good. A show that's
00:14:02 --> 00:14:06 mostly banter and not core content is a show
00:14:06 --> 00:14:10 killer. So that's what I'm thinking. I'd love
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 to hear your thoughts on this. Let me know over
00:14:13 --> 00:14:15 at streamlinedfeedback .com. What kind of show
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 do you have? Interview? Host, co -host? Are you
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 thinking about starting a show? Do you like solo
00:14:21 --> 00:14:23 episodes? Again, that's over at streamlinedfeedback
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 .com. Thanks so much for listening. And until
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 next time, I hope you find some space in your
00:14:28 --> 00:14:29 week.