I'm starting to wonder if a host/co-host format is actually the best format for a podcast.
I’ve been listening to a lot of different podcasts lately—rewatch shows, comedy shows, tech shows—and one thing keeps standing out: good banter makes a podcast worth coming back to.
But here’s the catch…banter only works when it supports the mission of the show. Get it right, and you create a bond with your audience.
Get it wrong, and your listeners tune out.
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About Streamlined Podcaster: This is the show for solo podcasters who love their podcast but hate how much time it takes. Each week, host Joe Casabona shares the systems, workflows, and podcast automation that let you run a great show without burning out.
Joe has been a solo podcaster for 15+ years and helps solopreneurs replace manual tasks with reliable systems so they can take time off worry-free. He knows firsthand what it takes to produce a quality show solo — and he's here to help you do the same.
Get Joe's favorite podcasting tools: https://streamlinedpodcaster.com/tools
Connect with Joe on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jcasabona/
00:00:02 --> 00:00:06 Welcome to the Streamlined Podcaster, a podcast
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 that shows you how to put the right systems in
00:00:08 --> 00:00:12 place so you can stop spinning your wheels, focus
00:00:12 --> 00:00:15 on making great content and see your show grow.
00:00:15 --> 00:00:17 Because there's nothing worse than putting a
00:00:17 --> 00:00:20 ton of effort into your show to see very few
00:00:20 --> 00:00:24 benefits and even fewer downloads. My name is
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 Joe Casabona and I know you're strapped for time.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:31 So let's get into it. I have been thinking a
00:00:31 --> 00:00:37 lot about podcast formats lately. You know, for
00:00:37 --> 00:00:42 a long time it was, oh, it's always host, co
00:00:42 --> 00:00:46 -host or it's interviews. Most people who come
00:00:46 --> 00:00:51 to me want to start an interview podcast. There
00:00:51 --> 00:00:53 is a number of people or there are a number of
00:00:53 --> 00:00:59 people who consider starting a solo show. I do
00:00:59 --> 00:01:03 a mix of both. This show is all solo episodes.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 Take note of that, people who are going to eventually
00:01:05 --> 00:01:12 pitch me to be on this show. But my other show,
00:01:12 --> 00:01:16 The Streamline Solopreneur, is a mix of solo
00:01:16 --> 00:01:20 episodes, interviews. And so I've been thinking
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 a lot about podcast format lately because podcasting
00:01:23 --> 00:01:28 is changing fundamentally, unavoidably. We've
00:01:28 --> 00:01:33 seen it in the news with like Wondery downsizing
00:01:33 --> 00:01:37 or shutting down and other story driven podcasts,
00:01:37 --> 00:01:42 right? Like these highly produced fictional podcasts
00:01:42 --> 00:01:46 that are shutting down. Serial, which is one
00:01:46 --> 00:01:54 of the podcasts that has really catapulted podcasting
00:01:54 --> 00:01:57 like into the first wave of the mainstream, I
00:01:57 --> 00:02:01 would say. is, you know, publishes like fewer
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 episodes further between since they've been acquired
00:02:04 --> 00:02:07 by the New York Times. The New York Times still
00:02:07 --> 00:02:09 puts out a bunch of podcasts, but they are news
00:02:09 --> 00:02:13 based podcasts. And so. I've been trying to think
00:02:13 --> 00:02:21 about. In an age where our tools, AI take a shot,
00:02:21 --> 00:02:26 you know, the AI in 2025 drinking game. Our tools.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 have enabled us more than ever to be able to
00:02:32 --> 00:02:41 focus on creating really good content. But there
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 is, and I should say I'm not qualified to talk
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 about this. I've never done an audio drama. I
00:02:47 --> 00:02:50 have talked to very few people who have done
00:02:50 --> 00:02:56 an audio drama, but is the audio drama format
00:02:56 --> 00:03:01 the right one for a podcast. Audiobooks are a
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 thing. In fact, Spotify is like doubling down
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 on audiobooks, right? They just added a new tier
00:03:06 --> 00:03:11 where you can buy more hours for audiobooks.
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 I can't imagine that they would have done that
00:03:13 --> 00:03:20 if the first introduction of audiobooks to their
00:03:20 --> 00:03:25 audience was failing. So is it like, you know,
00:03:26 --> 00:03:30 Our audio drama is like a short run podcast,
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 which is perfectly fine, right? Like TV shows
00:03:32 --> 00:03:37 don't go on forever. So, like, do podcasts have
00:03:37 --> 00:03:41 to go on forever? I would say no. I think that
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 people think it's like you got to do it weekly,
00:03:43 --> 00:03:45 you got to show up, but you don't necessarily
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 have to. You do a 10 episode audio drama and
00:03:48 --> 00:03:52 you've told a story for a fixed budget. And great.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:58 Good job. That's evergreen content. But I also
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 think that, like, most people, if you're listening
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 to this, you're probably thinking, oh, I have
00:04:03 --> 00:04:06 an interview podcast. That seems like the easiest
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 type of content to create, right? Which it's
00:04:09 --> 00:04:13 not. Sorry to break it to you. There's a lot
00:04:13 --> 00:04:17 of work that goes into doing a good interview.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:23 A good interview. In a previous episode, I talked
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 about, like, don't make your guest provide questions
00:04:26 --> 00:04:32 to you. That is your job as the host. But, like,
00:04:32 --> 00:04:37 similarly, do research, right? Don't just, like,
00:04:37 --> 00:04:39 don't just say we're going to have a casual conversation.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 Control the story, right? I have a document with
00:04:42 --> 00:04:45 all of my interviews and I go over it with my
00:04:45 --> 00:04:48 guests before we record and... We don't strictly
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 stick to the script, try saying that ten times
00:04:51 --> 00:04:57 fast, but we do have a thread that we try to
00:04:57 --> 00:05:03 pull on and get back to. And I have been a little
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06 more heavy -handed in my edits lately to trim
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 out some of the extra stuff, especially when
00:05:09 --> 00:05:12 I interview friends and we kind of go off tangent.
00:05:12 --> 00:05:14 I used to keep those in, I used to call them
00:05:14 --> 00:05:19 side quests, but I have to evolve, right? You
00:05:19 --> 00:05:23 know, I always think about the movie The Grand
00:05:23 --> 00:05:27 Hotel. Came out in like 1932. It's like, I think
00:05:27 --> 00:05:29 it's like Universal Pictures, like first great
00:05:29 --> 00:05:33 film. It's just people talking in a hotel, as
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 far as I'm like, I'm not like a cinephile. I
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 like movies, but I'm not, you know, I'm sorry
00:05:38 --> 00:05:42 if I'm like offending you by saying that. But
00:05:42 --> 00:05:47 my point is like, A good movie in 1932 was basically
00:05:47 --> 00:05:51 just like synchronized video and audio. That
00:05:51 --> 00:05:57 movie is boring today. Mediums evolve. And so
00:05:57 --> 00:06:01 like, back when I first started podcasting, the
00:06:01 --> 00:06:05 fact that I had a decent conversation with great
00:06:05 --> 00:06:10 audio was all I needed to do because most podcasts
00:06:10 --> 00:06:16 sounded terrible. or we're meandering, or like
00:06:16 --> 00:06:20 we're about Apple. I feel like most podcasts
00:06:20 --> 00:06:25 were about Apple. And so like, you know, we need
00:06:25 --> 00:06:30 to evolve. And so what is like, what does a good
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 podcast look like in 2025? I think if you're
00:06:33 --> 00:06:35 going to do a good interview, that could be good,
00:06:35 --> 00:06:40 right? But I'm starting to wonder if like the
00:06:40 --> 00:06:47 host, co -host format the best format. And I
00:06:47 --> 00:06:51 think it's because of the banter. It's easier
00:06:51 --> 00:06:55 to form a relationship, even if it's a parasocial
00:06:55 --> 00:07:01 relationship, with a host when they're doing
00:07:01 --> 00:07:03 more than just what I'm doing right now, which
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 is talk at you, right? Because I'm not doing
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 like an audio vlog. I'm not telling you about
00:07:07 --> 00:07:14 my day. I'm trying to stay focused on the topic.
00:07:15 --> 00:07:19 Which is, is host -co -host the best format?
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 And so it's maybe harder for you to form a bond
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 with me. Let me know. I mean, right at streamlinedfeedback
00:07:27 --> 00:07:28 .com and be like, no, you're wrong about that.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:32 I'm happy to hear that. But with a host -co -host
00:07:32 --> 00:07:36 format, there's more opportunity to get personal,
00:07:36 --> 00:07:41 to do... side quests, quote unquote, without
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 it seeming distracting because it is part of
00:07:44 --> 00:07:48 the lore of the show. And I have a few examples
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 here, right? You know, there's a show I really
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 like called Upgrade. It's with Jason Snell and
00:07:53 --> 00:07:57 Mike Hurley. It's from Relay. Relay .fm is the
00:07:57 --> 00:08:01 website. And they have banter, but they stay
00:08:01 --> 00:08:06 generally focused. Mike is on another show, which
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 is I should say that upgrade is technology, mostly
00:08:09 --> 00:08:14 Apple News. Connected, Mike is also on, also
00:08:14 --> 00:08:18 primarily tech slash Apple News. And he is on
00:08:18 --> 00:08:22 it with Federico Vettici and Stephen Hackett.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:27 And they are less focused. There's a lot of they
00:08:27 --> 00:08:29 say there's a lot of japs, right? There's a lot
00:08:29 --> 00:08:34 of tomfoolery and horsing around. But that's
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 like part of the lore of the show. You listen
00:08:37 --> 00:08:42 for that because they are all experts in this
00:08:42 --> 00:08:48 field, but it's fun. It's a fun version of what
00:08:48 --> 00:08:49 they're doing. It's a fun spin on what they're
00:08:49 --> 00:08:54 doing. Now, all of those guys are long time podcasters.
00:08:55 --> 00:08:59 They've been at it for a while. But let's look
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 at a more recent trend, right? Which I think
00:09:01 --> 00:09:05 probably happened with The Office Ladies, which
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 is like a rewatch podcast or maybe West Wing
00:09:08 --> 00:09:12 Weekly. But there are three rewatch podcasts
00:09:12 --> 00:09:16 that I listen to. Well, two I listen to. One,
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 I'll tell you why in a minute. But of some of
00:09:19 --> 00:09:24 my favorite shows, right? So one is Fake Doctors
00:09:24 --> 00:09:26 Real Friends with Zach Braff and Donald Faison.
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast and How
00:09:30 --> 00:09:35 We Made Your Mother. The two I listened to are
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast and How
00:09:37 --> 00:09:41 We Made Your Mother. I stopped listening pretty
00:09:41 --> 00:09:47 quickly to Fake Doctors Real Friends. Now this
00:09:47 --> 00:09:49 like predates both of those shows by a while.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 So like it came out, I think it was pandemic
00:09:51 --> 00:09:55 era. I admittedly haven't listened to it in a
00:09:55 --> 00:09:59 while. But I gave it the old college try and
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 I just like couldn't do it. Even though Scrubs
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 is one of my favorite shows. Now I just checked
00:10:05 --> 00:10:08 and as I'm recording this three days ago they
00:10:08 --> 00:10:11 put out an episode called Our Last Hurrah. And
00:10:11 --> 00:10:13 before that it was basically like Real Friends
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 classics. I scrolled back it looks like they
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 did make it through the entire series. And that
00:10:19 --> 00:10:22 includes the spinoff right Scrubs Med School.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 But I stopped watching somewhere in season one.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:28 Because the show quickly got off the rails and
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 they were focused more on the lives of Zach Braff
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 and Donald Faison than on the actual show. And
00:10:35 --> 00:10:37 that's fine if that's how you're going to bill
00:10:37 --> 00:10:40 it. Now they cursed a lot. And while I curse
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 a lot in my real life, I try not to curse a lot
00:10:42 --> 00:10:44 on podcasts, especially because I like to listen
00:10:44 --> 00:10:47 to podcasts in the car with my kids. That's neither
00:10:47 --> 00:10:53 here nor there. But... The banter went from banter
00:10:53 --> 00:10:58 to tangents that distracted. If we look at the
00:10:58 --> 00:11:00 Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast and How We
00:11:00 --> 00:11:02 Made Your Mother, let's look at How We Made Your
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 Mother first. I think this is the most focused
00:11:04 --> 00:11:08 show of all of them. Just by virtue of it being
00:11:08 --> 00:11:12 two people. Maybe sometimes three when they bring
00:11:12 --> 00:11:16 on a guest, which they don't do every episode.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:19 It's focused. They walk through the episode.
00:11:19 --> 00:11:22 They talk a bit about it. I don't know if there's
00:11:22 --> 00:11:26 an outline. It seems really casual, but I think
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 they created a mission for the show and they
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 are sticking pretty strictly to that mission,
00:11:31 --> 00:11:35 at least in this first few months of the show.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 Now, the Lonely Island Seth Meyers podcast, there's
00:11:39 --> 00:11:42 a lot of banter. There's a lot of inside jokes,
00:11:42 --> 00:11:48 but it's kind of... It's part of the lore of
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 the show, like I was saying with Connected. You
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 know, they got an inside joke and they call their
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 listeners the Quaid army. And, you know, you
00:11:56 --> 00:11:59 say Quaid army and they respond righteous kill.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:03 And there's a whole bunch of nonsense. But ultimately,
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 the show is mostly about their time at SNL and
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 they're walking through all of their shorts,
00:12:09 --> 00:12:13 like the digital shorts that they did. They'll
00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 sometimes... diverge and talk about current projects
00:12:16 --> 00:12:21 and things like that, but I listen to get a behind
00:12:21 --> 00:12:24 the scenes look at what it was like working at
00:12:24 --> 00:12:26 SNL, what it was like creating digital shorts,
00:12:27 --> 00:12:29 and an inside look at their creative process.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:35 And I get that, right? I'm listening to How We
00:12:35 --> 00:12:39 Made Your Mother because that show told such
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42 an incredible story, regardless of how you feel
00:12:42 --> 00:12:46 about the last season. So told such an incredible
00:12:46 --> 00:12:51 story which with such continuity That I want
00:12:51 --> 00:12:53 to know how it happened and like how they put
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 it all together and that's what I was curious
00:12:56 --> 00:13:01 about with fake doctors real friends, but it
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 quickly turned into like The thing I remember
00:13:04 --> 00:13:09 most about listening to that show was them talking
00:13:09 --> 00:13:13 about going to Cabo and like Johnny C. McGinley,
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 who played Dr. Cox, trying to get them back on
00:13:16 --> 00:13:23 track. And so like, I would love, maybe they
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 changed this, maybe they got feedback and they
00:13:26 --> 00:13:29 course corrected. I'll have to listen again.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 But that's how they lost me. And so I'm telling
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 you all this because I think a host -co -host
00:13:36 --> 00:13:41 format could be really good. The banter is really
00:13:41 --> 00:13:45 important, but don't let the banter distract
00:13:45 --> 00:13:49 from the mission of the show. Don't let your
00:13:49 --> 00:13:52 show turn into a bunch of inside jokes with a
00:13:52 --> 00:13:56 friend at the risk of alienating the audience.
00:13:58 --> 00:14:02 A little bit of banter is good. A show that's
00:14:02 --> 00:14:06 mostly banter and not core content is a show
00:14:06 --> 00:14:10 killer. So that's what I'm thinking. I'd love
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 to hear your thoughts on this. Let me know over
00:14:13 --> 00:14:15 at streamlinedfeedback .com. What kind of show
00:14:15 --> 00:14:18 do you have? Interview? Host, co -host? Are you
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 thinking about starting a show? Do you like solo
00:14:21 --> 00:14:23 episodes? Again, that's over at streamlinedfeedback
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 .com. Thanks so much for listening. And until
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 next time, I hope you find some space in your
00:14:28 --> 00:14:29 week.